Coffee keeps the world turning. Or, at least, it makes it easier to pry your eyelids open and maintain some semblance of normalcy every day. There have been many research studies, technological innovations, and passionate arguments dedicated to brewing a better cup of coffee. A recent wave of impressively designed coffee gadgets aims to dial it in even further. But too often, those flashy high-tech solutions don’t make a mug of coffee that’s any more satisfying than the familiar methods that have been around for years—or centuries, even.
This week on Gadget Lab, WIRED contributor, cookbook author, and smart-kitchen expert Joe Ray joins us to chat about coffee: the optimal way to brew it, the best tech to use, and whether it’s OK to shame people who use disposable K-Cups. (Yes, it is.)
Read Joe’s buying guide to find the best AeroPress coffee brewer, and check out his roundup of the best cookbooks of 2023 (so far). Read all of Joe’s food and kitchen coverage for WIRED.
Joe recommends Craft Coffee: A Manual: Brewing a Better Cup at Home, by Jessica Easto, and Company: The Radically Casual Art of Cooking for Others, by Amy Thielen. Lauren recommends giving honey as a gift and keeping a box cutter around the house. Mike recommends Mission Vegan: Wildly Delicious Food for Everyone, by Danny Bowien and JJ Goode.
Joe Ray can be found on social media @joe_diner. Lauren Goode is @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore is @snackfight. Bling the main hotline at @GadgetLab. The show is produced by Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth). Our theme music is by Solar Keys.
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Note: This is an automated transcript, which may contain errors.
Michael Calore: Lauren.
Lauren Goode: Mike.
Michael Calore: How many cups of coffee do you drink every day?
Lauren Goode: You know some of this because you sit next to me, but it’s a lot. I’ll start with a double shot of espresso in the morning. Sometimes I’ll take a travel mug with me to the office, have some more in the afternoon, sometimes at night. Sometimes I have coffee at night, or tea: caffeine.
Michael Calore: Sure.
Lauren Goode: How about you?
Michael Calore: I usually drink two cups a day. One to start my day and then one in the middle of the day.
Lauren Goode: OK, and do you find that affects your sleep?
Michael Calore: No, not at all.
Lauren Goode: I already know what kind of coffee you take because I’ve gotten you a lot of coffee.
Michael Calore: That’s right, you have. You got me coffee before this—
Lauren Goode: That actually sounds like I’m like your assistant. I will go with my clipboard and my lanyard, and I get you your coffee. But really, I do enjoy picking up coffee for you when I go to get a coffee.
Michael Calore: And you are very much not my assistant. You are however, the cohost of this podcast, and I think we should talk about coffee today.
Lauren Goode: I would love to talk about coffee. Coffee, coffee, coffee, more coffee.
Michael Calore: Let’s do it.
Lauren Goode: Let’s do it.
[Gadget Lab intro theme music plays]
Michael Calore: Hi everyone. Welcome to Gadget Lab. I am Michael Calore. I’m a senior editor at WIRED.
Lauren Goode: And I’m Lauren Goode. I’m a senior writer at WIRED.
Michael Calore: We are joined today on the show once again by WIRED contributor Joe Ray. Joe, welcome back.
Joe Ray: Hi everybody. Nice to see you guys.
Lauren Goode: Great to have you back in the Lab, Joe.
Michael Calore: Great to have you.
Lauren Goode: Although you are not in the Lab with us. You are home in Seattle.
Joe Ray: I wish I was there.
Lauren Goode: We wish you were here too.
Michael Calore: He’s in an undisclosed location.
Lauren Goode: That’s right. He’s in a bunker.
Michael Calore: So Joe, we had you on this show many moons ago to talk about smart kitchen technology. That is your beat here. You write a lot for WIRED in our reviews section and in the Gear section about smart kitchen tech: weird toasters that have apps, refrigerators that talk to you, thermometers that are wireless, and all sorts of things. However, you also write a lot about coffee. You have been writing about brewing methods, grinders, kettles, all sorts of coffee and coffee-related things for us for years. So we’re going to talk to you about coffee today. How does that sound?
Joe Ray: That sounds great. I’m trying to sound all hepped up. That sounds great!
Lauren Goode: Joe, how many cups have you had so far today?
Joe Ray: I have had two, I think, which is not very much for me, but there’s still time. There is still time.
Lauren Goode: Man, Joe, two not enough. Right there with you.
Michael Calore: But there will be plenty of thirst-making conversation because we are going to talk about various methods for brewing coffee, gear for brewing coffee, various techniques that we’ve all learned, things that we like, things that bother us.
Joe, I would like to start this conversation with a challenge, because I know you’re a big fan of French press, and I cannot understand why you would like French press. So I want you first to tell us what you like about it, so then I can deconstruct your argument and shoot it all down.
Joe Ray: Well, first of all, I’m a polyamorous coffee lover, I would say. Coffee method lover, let’s say. So yes, historically I’m very pro-French press, but I really go in waves. But I’ll work with you here and say I like French press because I can make an amount, like a given amount, like a half a liter or a liter, and then I can pour it in a carafe and keep it warm. I like the texture of a French press, and I think French press works pretty well for dark roast, which is probably my favorite kind of brew. And it’s also pretty hands-off. You boil water. You put the grounds in the bottom of the carafe. You pour the water on top. You stir it up. And then you just let it sit for a while. Do other things: make your breakfast, read the newspaper, get your workday going. And then you come back, I don’t know, like five to eight minutes later, and you press the little handle on the top down and your coffee’s ready.
Michael Calore: Meanwhile—
Joe Ray: It tastes really good. Meanwhile, go ahead.
Michael Calore: Meanwhile, your coffee is getting over extracted.
Joe Ray: Not.
Michael Calore: It’s sitting in the water too long.
Lauren Goode: Mike is starting off with violence.
Michael Calore: So is—
Joe Ray: Maybe he’s had too much.
Michael Calore: This is the thing about French press. The French press method, it’s very beautiful, it’s very elegant. It’s a very pure and old-school way of making coffee. It introduces a lot of solids in your coffee, which show up as either sediment or grit that you can taste, that you can feel. Also, the coffee stays in contact with the water for entirely too long, and you end up with over-extracted coffee. Also, Joe, I would argue that dark roast is the over-roasted coffee bean and that if you’re making French press, you should be making it with medium-roast or light-roast beans instead.
Lauren Goode: But Joe said that he liked the texture. When you said you liked the texture, Joe, is that what you were actually referring to—the sediment, the overly sedimental coffee?
Joe Ray: Yeah, I mean, I think a bit of what Mike is referring to is the fines. There are oils because the filter on a French press is metallic, and if it’s not over the top, some people enjoy them. I do. I feel like Mike was kind of bulldozing his way through all the reasons why he didn’t really like these things. But you mentioned, Mike, over-extraction. And that’s something you can avoid if you brew it right, if you don’t let it sit too long, if you brew using the right temperature and the right grind size. And then, also, if once you’ve depressed the lever and the brewing is over, then you pour it out into a different carafe, then you essentially keep the amount of time that you’re brewing finite, period.
Michael Calore: Right, OK.
Lauren Goode: What about an AeroPress? What’s the difference between a French press and an AeroPress?
Michael Calore: Joe, you can take this one.
Joe Ray: An AeroPress involves pressure, so they are pretty similar. You put the grounds in. You pour the water over the top. You let them “bloom,” which is when they sort of off-gas, they release gas. You stir and let that kind of dissipate, and then you let the rest of the brewing happen. AeroPress is generally smaller than a French press, unless you have a very tiny French press. AeroPress is usually just for one person and for those who don’t like any sediment in their coffee, any fines to get in there. The AeroPress uses a filter. It’s a little paper filter, just a tiny version that you could use in a coffee maker. At the end of the brewing time, then you press it. You use your own muscles and you press down, and you force the water through the grounds, directly into your cup.
Michael Calore: I love an AeroPress. It’s also, it’s like plastic and compact and it travels really well, so you can bring it to hotel rooms or Airbnbs.
Lauren Goode: You’ve brought it to the office before.
Michael Calore: I have. I keep one at the office.
Lauren Goode: Yeah, yeah, you walk around with your little … And I’m like, “What is that?” Because it looks like a lab beaker.
Michael Calore: It does look like a lab beaker.
Lauren Goode: It looks really cool, and you’re like, “It’s my AeroPress.” I’m like, “Oh.” And I never understood actually what the difference was between the French press and the AeroPress.
Michael Calore: Yeah, it’s mechanically different. Although the brewing, the way that the coffee interacts with the water, is similar. And you could say it’s similar in most ways of brewing, but I think in those two it’s pretty close.
Joe Ray: And it’s got a filter.
Lauren Goode: And it’s got the filter. So Joe, if you don’t have access to a French press or an AeroPress, what kind of coffee are you going for? Are you a drip-coffee guy? Do you have to have your espresso? What’s the next best option for you?
Joe Ray: I think when I’m at home I prefer a drip machine, a coffee maker. I have the Oxo 8-cup, which is my favorite. It allows you to make both a large full carafe of coffee and a single cup, which is a pretty neat trick, as it’s hard to do both well. And it does both pretty darn well.
Michael Calore: Yeah, and there are a lot of coffee machines out there that are getting on this trend of being able to make one, basically a mugful of coffee for you, in addition to a fuller carafe. But it’s really kind of a hard thing for manufacturers to get right.
Joe Ray: Oxo and Braun also did one a few years back, and I’m happy to see that slowly we’re seeing more and more do it. But it’s pretty tricky, because you essentially need two different brewing baskets and maybe even different filter sizes. So the one that I use has a large filter size and a smaller filter size, but it’s a little bit fussy. Like my dad for instance, it’s a little too much for him to … He’s not that into coffee, and he just wants to make a pot. And so for him, I just tell him how to make a large pot. And he can make a half-pot, and that doesn’t really change anything. And I just ignore the single-cup option for him.
Lauren Goode: Or you can just get a $17 Mr. Coffee …
Michael Calore: You could.
Lauren Goode: … which I used for a long time.
Michael Calore: Those machines do a pretty basic thing pretty well.
Lauren Goode: Yeah, they do. I once rigged my Mr. Coffee pot with a bunch of sensors so that … I was using smart things at the time.
Michael Calore: Oh, yeah.
Lauren Goode: So I put some sensors around my apartment. This is almost a decade ago, and it was like the whole idea of doing internet of things and smart gadgets around your home was a novelty. So when I got up and got out of bed, an alarm went off and then there was a motion sensor and the coffee pot automatically turned on. It was just a matter of triggering the on/off switch really, so you had to still prepare the coffee the night before. It was all very Rube-Goldbergian. It wasn’t super-sophisticated. But Oxo, I would never have thought of that brand as making a coffee maker. They’ve totally taken over our kitchen. Has anyone done that story yet?
Michael Calore: No, that’s a good story, though.
Lauren Goode: It is a good story.
Michael Calore: Joe, what does your next couple of weeks look like?
Lauren Goode: Truly. OK.
Joe Ray: I think you’re right. They’ve done a really nice job. Their timers are really good; a lot of their utensils are really good. I’m not sure what they’re doing differently or why the competition is not keeping up with them, because it’s a huge market. But Oxo is doing particularly well, yes.
Lauren Goode: Mike, you also love pour-over coffee.
Michael Calore: Yes, I do. I’m a pour-over coffee devotee.
Lauren Goode: Why is that?
Michael Calore: Well, it’s slow.
Lauren Goode: Well, actually, maybe that’s a good place to start. What is it? How does it work?
Michael Calore: Pour-over coffee is a method of brewing where you make basically one or two cups at a time. You can buy a little pour-over filter holder, where you put a paper filter. You put your coffee in it, and this little contraption just fits over a mug or your travel mug or a little carafe. You put the coffee grounds in there. You pour, very slowly, water on top of the grounds and you do it … You pour it in a way that the water never really gets to the top of the cone, and there’s always water in the cone. So it’s like a very slow, consistent pour that lasts about two minutes.
Lauren Goode: So it’s tea. You’re making tea out of coffee.
Michael Calore: No, because tea …
Lauren Goode: You’re pouring boiling hot water over the thing that’s in a sleeve.
Michael Calore: It’s fancier than that, Lauren. This is what I’m saying.
Lauren Goode: Oh, OK.
Joe Ray: Oh, it’s so much fancier than that. Tell us about the gooseneck kettle, Mike.
Michael Calore: Yes, you can use any kettle you want, as long as it’s a gooseneck kettle. They do make gooseneck kettles, which are exactly what you think they are, that are made for pour-over coffee because you can control the speed of the pour. And it’s all about finding a water-flow speed and a grind size and a coffee amount, that the three of them together make your ideal cup of coffee. So if you’re the type of person who is not satisfied with the different coffees that you get, then you’re a pour-over person, because you have total control over how that coffee tastes, how strong it is, what the extraction rate is, and how much of it you’re drinking.
Lauren Goode: So what does the speed have to do with it? Are you whispering sweet nothings to the coffee grounds in that time, like careless whispers, and why does it have to be slow? Why do you need the gooseneck?
Michael Calore: Well, if you just dump all the water in there—
Lauren Goode: Which is inevitably what I would do.
Michael Calore: Which is like what some Chemex people do. Chemex is a pour-over-style coffee device, if you’re not familiar. It’s what my father does when he makes coffee, and I tell him, “You got to pour it in a little bit slower.” If you just dump all the water in there, then you end up with coffee that is watery. You end up with coffee that just tastes kind of papery and flat. Whereas if you pour it in slowly and you control the rate at which the coffee interacts with the water, then you just get a better extraction. You get a better cup.
Lauren Goode: And so you do this at home?
Michael Calore: Yes. Every morning.
Joe Ray: It takes forever. It does.
Michael Calore: It takes two minutes.
Lauren Goode: How long?
Joe Ray: I would rather walk away and do other things while my coffee is making itself, which is why I like French press and why I like AeroPress.
Michael Calore: But what is really fantastic about a pour-over is that you control all of the variables in coffee making. You control the grind size. You can control the temperature of the water, you can control how fast the water flows to the grounds to make sure that you are taking full advantage of the grounds. So you don’t want … To answer your question, Lauren, if you poured water over the top of the grounds all at once, and it all kind of ran through quickly, you’re essentially wasting coffee, because it’s all just going to run through. And depending on the speed, and the size of the grind of course, it just won’t have enough time to put the coffee into your water to create your cup of coffee. The coffee dissolves: There are solids and gases and oils that all end up in your cup. And if you pour the water over too fast, you’re not getting as many of them as you want in your cup.
Lauren Goode: I have a question for both of you that I think is going to be controversial.
Michael Calore: What’s that?
Lauren Goode: Well, how do you feel about K-Cups and espresso pods?
Michael Calore: Oh my goodness. Can we take a break and come back, right?
Lauren Goode: We need an entire segment.
Michael Calore: Let’s take a break and come right back and answer that question.
Lauren Goode: OK.
[Break]
Michael Calore: OK, K-Cups. How do I feel about K-Cups? I …
Lauren Goode: K-Cups I actually put in a different category from espresso pods, but they’re pods, they’re all pods.
Michael Calore: Pod-based machines, K-Cup-based machines. I don’t see any place for them in 2023, or 2024 for that matter.
Lauren Goode: They’ve gone the way of the Christmas tree in Mike’s mind. You’ll have to have listened to our earlier podcast to get that reference.
Michael Calore: I feel like they’re not only wasteful, but they don’t really give you as good of results as you can achieve with something that requires a little bit more attention, just a little bit more work and is less wasteful.
Lauren Goode: Joe?
Joe Ray: I can’t get over the waste. I think the coffee is at best, almost invariably, kind of blah. It’s very convenient. You just put the pod in. You close the machine. You make sure it’s got water in it, and you hit the button and you walk away. And you come back and your coffee’s done two minutes later or however long it takes. But I don’t think the quality is very good, and really for me, it’s just the environmental end. Somebody has to make that plastic thing, the little container that it comes in and the foil top. Or even if it’s an environmentally compostable thing, that’s getting shipped around, that’s getting made. There’s all this extra energy that’s going into making this thing that really just makes crummy coffee. Why not use something like I use, the Oxo or even an AeroPress, which is maybe a little more effort, yes. But the coffee is exponentially better, and you’re not killing the world.
Lauren Goode: Yeah, I use Nespresso pods. I probably have …
Joe Ray: You’re killing the world.
Lauren Goode: … many a day. I’m trying to think of how many I have per day. At least four.
Michael Calore: Four?
Lauren Goode: Yeah.
Michael Calore: Four Nespresso pods …
Lauren Goode: A day.
Michael Calore: … in the world, now, in landfills every day.
Lauren Goode: Well, and then to Joe’s point, Nespresso does give you, for free, these recycling bags that you can put all the pods in and then drop it off at your mailbox or UPS or something, and supposedly it’s recycled. I have been tempted to put an air tag in one of those bags just to see where it goes, to track it. We should do that sometime. Do a little WIRED experiment.
Joe Ray: I’d buy that story.
Lauren Goode: Yeah. Yeah, no one else steal my idea now that I’m putting it publicly out there on a podcast. But I have been curious to know whether or not it actually goes to a recycling plant and what happens to it. And to Joe’s other point, it’s not the greatest coffee in the world. It is incredibly convenient. I got the espresso machine as a gift. It’s great to have at home when you’re working from home and you just need a quick shot of espresso or two or four.
I’ve been wondering, Joe, actually, if I wanted to upgrade to something that actually means I am grinding my own coffee, I am tamping the grounds, I am making real espresso. But I don’t want to go over the top, or I can’t afford a big machine, nor do I have the counter space for it. What’s the next step up in your mind?
Joe Ray: So it sounds like you’re talking about getting a home espresso machine, and I will say for me, I would rather have just a good way to do a regular brewed coffee. So like an AeroPress or a coffee maker or a pour-over.
Lauren Goode: Joe, that all sounds great, but I just really want espresso.
Joe Ray: But the thing is, when you talk to baristas, you ask them what they have at home and you expect them to have a little espresso machine, and they don’t. I mean sometimes they do if they’re really, really into it. And sometimes if you’re a real big coffee nerd, yes, you can have an espresso machine at home. But it’s really, really difficult to make good espresso in your house. And even baristas will just say it’s better to just once in a while go to the coffee shop and have the experts make it at their machine, which they can calibrate every day and kind of make sure that the grind size is correct and if there’s atmospheric pressure that’s playing into it or the particular ground is older or very fresh. All that stuff really plays into, especially with espresso, all that stuff really plays into the quality of the final product.
I’ve had espresso machines at home and have tested a bunch of them for WIRED and I just … Every time I have them, I like them, and I can get them to make decent coffee. But the number of really fantastic shots of espresso that I have pulled with machines at home is like I could count on one hand. A lot of them are just fine. No one would ever complain about them. But the really, really good ones, the one you would pay good money for, I’ve done that maybe a couple of times. And there’s so much work. It’s so much extra equipment. You have to have this special grinder. You need a decent machine that has enough pressure. It’s a very expensive proposition. And unless you’re really into it … If you are really into it, go for it. But if you’re not, I would say try to find something that’s a little more suited to just kind of getting on with your day, let’s say.
Lauren Goode: Wow, Joe crushing my Nespresso dreams.
Joe Ray: I’m sorry.
Lauren Goode: No, that’s OK. This is all good. You know what? I’m probably not going to get super, super into it. I’m not going to have the time to become the home barista that I would like to be. And I do like going to coffee shops. But another part of the whole “just go to a coffee shop and get a great pull of espresso” is how expensive coffee has gotten.
Michael Calore: It truly has.
Lauren Goode: Why is it so expensive?
Michael Calore: I mean, we should mention that we’re all city people. Joe lives in a big city. We live in a big city. We have all of these fancy, fancy coffee shops around and we’re used to—
Lauren Goode: It’s so cute when Mike calls San Francisco a big city.
Michael Calore: It is. I mean—
Lauren Goode: Please continue.
Michael Calore: It’s a medium-size city, but we are a fancy city, so we have a lot of fancy coffee choices. The thing is, I am used to paying a little bit more for coffee because we have such a high cost of living here. But then I go somewhere else that does not have as big of a high cost of living. And the coffee costs the same amount of money.
Lauren Goode: Right. You travel anywhere now, and you get a latte and it’s six or seven bucks.
Michael Calore: I mean, there’s a lot of things, right? There’s inflation. There’s labor. The shipping is more expensive because the price of petroleum products are higher. There’s a lot of things that go into your cup of coffee that maybe you don’t think about.
Lauren Goode: Yeah, I have to say, growing up, my family did not drink fancy coffee. My mother’s family ran basically a delicatessen and they served like jet fuel. It was not very good coffee. And when I first tried coffee, that is what it tasted like. And then I moved to New York City and I was getting cheap coffee from the coffee cart on the corner, also like jet fuel. And then when I finally started making my own, it was a pretty inexpensive drip coffee kind of situation. So the fact now that I like fancy coffee is a bit of a problem, budget-wise. I wish I didn’t like it so much, but I really do. But it is so expensive. The Washington Post just did this great article on it recently, just a few weeks ago, talking about all the factors, Mike, that you’ve mentioned, going into the cost of this, and climate change is part of that too. Just add that to the list.
Michael Calore: Yeah, so a cup of pour-over coffee, something where the person working there, the barista, has to stand behind the counter and pour hot water over the grounds for two minutes is like a $6 cup of coffee now—which is a lot, because it’s just water with some solids in it. But you’re talking about the labor and you’re talking about maybe this place roasts their own beans. There’s a lot of other stuff that goes into just like “coffee.” I’m making air quotes. It’s an audio medium, so I have to say that I’m making air quotes. But that’s the way that we view coffee, is what you’re talking about, that you grew up with: this very kind of cheap sort of commodity that is ubiquitous and is universally available to people. And then coffee got fancy, coffee got expensive, and now everything is fancy and expensive.
Lauren Goode: There was a quote in The Washington Post article that basically said nobody thinks about coffee as a luxury, and they should. Joe, do you think coffee is a luxury?
Joe Ray: Yes. I think I invest in coffee in as much as I get nice beans to brew with at home. But going to a coffee shop for a coffee is a special treat. God, I used to work in, all the time I used to do so much of my work, pre-Covid I would say, in coffee shops. But yeah, it’s really expensive. If you get a couple cups, because you’re sitting there and you should, because using their space, that’s a lot of money. That really adds up over a day and then a week and then a year. I mean that’s several grand, a couple grand. That’s a lot of money to spend on a drink. Where at home, I can economize a bit more and still get a really nice-quality product. But I do love, I don’t know, once a month or two, I like to get a latte. It tastes really good. Some professional makes it just for me. They put the little fancy foaming on the top. It’s fantastic. And then you just go back to making good coffee at home. Unless you’re using K-Cups like Lauren.
Lauren Goode: Oh, he keeps saying K-Cups. It’s really hurting my heart. I don’t use K-Cups.
Michael Calore: They’re basically the same thing.
Lauren Goode: But they’re aluminum, they’re not plastic.
Michael Calore: Is there a difference?
Lauren Goode: There is a difference in material. There’s a difference in the type of coffee it is. There is a difference. But that’s it. I’m forever branded in Joe’s mind as the K-Cup Lauren.
Michael Calore: That’s you.
Lauren Goode: Speaking of K-Cups reminded me of something else. Joe, did you know what Mike’s name is? When we go to a coffee shop together, the name that he gives to the barista, that they can eventually shout out to let you know that your coffee’s ready?
Joe Ray: Nothing that I would be proud of saying on the air. So no, I don’t know.
Lauren Goode: Cupcake.
Michael Calore: Cupcake. Guarantee you there’s nobody else in line waiting for a coffee whose name is Cupcake. Because if you have a name—
Joe Ray: That’s pretty good.
Michael Calore: Joe, maybe you can relate to this. If you have a name that’s very common—
Joe Ray: There could be five of us in the shop.
Michael Calore: Exactly. Exactly. So why give them your name and do the whole thing where it’s like, “What did you get? Is this yours? Is this mine? I don’t know. I think you were in front.” Just give them a name that nobody else has: Cupcake.
Lauren Goode: So we’ll be standing there waiting, and all of a sudden the baristas go, “Cupcake?”
Michael Calore: Everybody—
Lauren Goode: “Cupcake.”
Michael Calore: I feel like everybody should have a good barista name.
Lauren Goode: Yeah. You know what my barista name’s going to be going forward?
Michael Calore: What’s that?
Lauren Goode: Boone Ashworth. He’s our producer. So we’re going to go to the coffee shop just to hear the person go, “Boone Ashworth. Your coffee’s ready.”
Michael Calore: Joe, I have one final question for you before we take a break and go to recommendations. Recently for WIRED, you wrote for us a buying guide to help people navigate the world of the AeroPress. And we have talked a lot about AeroPress during the show. I think you and I both agree that it’s a great way to make coffee at home or on the road, and that most people should have one, because they’re relatively inexpensive, and if you like coffee, it’s a good thing to have in your lineup. So which AeroPress is the one that people should consider?
Joe Ray: I would say I’m going to narrow it down from three, so bear with me. There’s the original, which is the full-size one, which makes one full mug. There is the Go, which is a little better at traveling and comes with its own mug, but it’s a little smaller. But roughly the coffee quality is about the same. And then there’s a new one called the Clear, which is like the original except it’s see-through, which is nice because then you can see what’s going on and make sure you’ve got all the grounds up from the bottom corner. And it’s just kind of nice to see how things are working inside there.
But when I was brewing with it, the Clear, I had a little trouble with the seal where the plunger comes into the brewing chamber. And you do this thing called the inverted method where essentially you brew it upside down, which keeps anything from dripping through, it’s impossible. But when you do inverted, you just do everything upside down and you flip it over and you press out the coffee into your cup. And that seal when you’re doing the inverted method on the Clear was not really good on the unit, which was a full-production unit that I tested. So if they resolve that, that might be the one to get. And if they don’t, stick with the original. Unless you travel a lot, at which point you just should get the Go.
How’s that for three answers for the price of one?
Michael Calore: That’s good. And I also agree with you. Personally, I push people towards the Go just because even if you don’t travel a whole lot, it packages up inside of itself. The whole brewer fits inside the little cup that it comes with, and it comes with a little lid. So it’s just one thing on your shelf instead of a couple of things that are a little bit awkward, which is what the original one is.
Joe Ray: Right. Right. I wish they made a full-size Go. I would get, that would be the one I would recommend.
Michael Calore: There you go.
Joe Ray: But still, the original packs up pretty well. The Go packs up perfect. And the Clear, the verdict’s still out.
Lauren Goode: Joe, I think you may have convinced me to just go with the Oxo for coffee.
Joe Ray: Yay!
Lauren Goode: Yeah, I’m going to give it a try.
Joe Ray: Congratulations! Welcome!
Lauren Goode: I can’t make any promises. I may still use my Nespresso aluminum pods, which are not K-Cup pods, just to be clear. Got to keep it real here. But I’ll give the Oxo a try and let you know what I think.
Joe Ray: That’s great.
Lauren Goode: I’m wondering how much more acidic the coffee is going to be, too. That’s a whole other podcast.
Michael Calore: That’s a whole other podcast.
Joe Ray: Depends on the coffee.
Michael Calore: You’ll have to come back and tell us, Lauren.
Lauren Goode: OK. Yeah.
Michael Calore: All right, let’s take a break and we’ll come back with our recommendations.
[Break]
Michael Calore: All right, welcome back. This is the third part of our show, the recommendations segment. We have been talking about coffee the whole episode. So now let’s expand our view a little bit and talk about things that are food- or drink- or kitchen-related that we might want to recommend to people, because we are entering the holiday season. We’re entering the time when you have people over or you may be giving a gift. So let’s stay in the kitchen, because we have our kitchen expert on the show today. Joe, what is your recommendation?
Joe Ray: I am going to cheat and have a couple, but I will go quickly. The first one I will say is a tiny stocking-sized book called Craft Coffee: A Manual that is by Jessica Easto. It does a great job. I’ve had this for years, and it does a really good job of describing what’s going on in your cup. The first half or so is all the technical information, all about brewing. And then from there, in the back half or third, she gives instructions for how to brew a good cup of coffee in several different kinds of coffee makers. So she’s got the Chemex, she’s got a Melitta, she’s got AeroPress. She doesn’t do drip filters or percolators or anything like that. But it’s really good because it just gives you a great place to start and it’s just compact and it’s a really great reference. She also has a new book out that’s called How to Taste Coffee, which I haven’t even had the time to dive into yet, but I’m really excited about.
And then to go more with the holiday theme, there is a book that is probably one of my top two of the year, and it’s called Company, by Amy Thielen. It is a cookbook. It’s really about how to cook and throw a party and do a good job of it without stressing yourself out too much and really cook fantastic food. I had this on my radar, kind of on the periphery of my radar, for months and just was like, it just wasn’t calling me yet. And then once I finally got a copy, I disappeared into it for a week or two. And even my sister, who is not cookbook-forward and is a great home cook, she saw it at my house one night and just kind of went quiet for half an hour while she checked it out. It’s really, it’s for people who know how to cook and are confident cooking at home. It’s a little bit advanced on the technique side, but it really helps you think how to get through a whole night with food that kind of plays off of one another so you’re not ending up with too heavy a meal. And it’s just, you can tell it’s someone who is an excellent cook and loves to and can really describe how to make you a better cook at home. It’s great.
Michael Calore: That’s great.
Lauren Goode: I love that.
Michael Calore: I would be remiss to not mention that that selection, the Company cookbook, is also in the recent roundup of your favorite cookbooks from the year that you wrote for WIRED.
Joe Ray: Yep. We had so, so many good cookbooks this year. I think it was probably due to Covid and maybe some supply-chain stuff, but 2023 has just been a fantastic year for cookbooks, and it looks like it’s already kind of expanding into 2024. It’s really been exciting to see so much good stuff come out in the past year.
Michael Calore: Great.
Lauren Goode: Great.
Michael Calore: Lauren, what is your recommendation?
Lauren Goode: My recommendation, if you’re looking for a food-related stocking stuffer to give to someone or just to bring as a little housewarming gift to one of those holiday parties that you’re going to is honey. I’m a big fan of honey. I have lots of different jars of honey. I buy a lot of local honey. I tend to buy honey wherever I go, just to try the local stuff. One of my favorite spots is down in Half Moon Bay, here in the Bay Area, where I get a lot of honey from. And you can get different kinds of honey: eucalyptus honey, sage honey. And often you can find local honey jars that are pretty small, right? I mean, they might not pass through TSA muster; you might have to check your bag. But you can definitely fit some in a stocking, if that’s the kind of vibe you’re going for. I would say the only caveat to that is if you’re bringing a gift to a staunch vegan, they may not like the honey because vegans don’t eat honey.
Michael Calore: They have vegan honey now. Bee-free honey.
Lauren Goode: Really?
Michael Calore: Yeah.
Lauren Goode: What is it, if it’s bee-free honey?
Michael Calore: Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, it may be agave syrup. I don’t really know, but I saw it at the store. Weirdly, it was in the case where they lock the expensive honeys, which is like a thing now at my grocery store, so I wasn’t able to check it out. But yeah, they make bee-free honey. Although I think most vegans have gotten used to agave syrup instead of honey as like a drippable brownish sweetener.
Lauren Goode: Very true. And I think, don’t quote me on this, I don’t want to be spreading disinformation, but that agave syrup has a lower glycemic index too.
Michael Calore: I have also heard that. Yes. So it must be true.
Lauren Goode: It must be true; that’s two of us. Look that up. But yeah, so honey.
And then I have a second recommendation, which is a callback to our show with Joe from exactly a year ago. I’m a poet and I didn’t even know it. I recommend getting a box cutter. This is not a kitchen gadget. Last year you guys were making fun of me …
Joe Ray: Oh, my God.
Lauren Goode: … saying, “Do you cut your potatoes with the box cutter?” No, I do not, of course. Although maybe that’s why my last potato-based recipe didn’t turn out so well. But truly this box cutter, if you don’t have a box cutter at home, or once again, if you’re looking for a gift to give to somebody, perfect stocking stuffer. I just used it this morning when I was hauling the trash out and needed to cut down some boxes. It’s so great to have, if you receive a lot of packages, if you need to break down the recycling, if you just need to do anything around the house really, that involves opening a box, you should get a box cutter. And I will link to the one that I have. So those are my recommendations.
Michael Calore: Very nice.
Lauren Goode: Mike, what’s yours?
Michael Calore: I’m going to recommend a cookbook.
Lauren Goode: OK.
Michael Calore: It’s a cookbook that has been out for a little over a year, but I have been cooking from it over the last year. And I feel like I’m at a place now where I can say that if you are an adventurous, and I would say fearless, cook …
Lauren Goode: It sounds like a Taylor Swift song.
Michael Calore: … then you should check out Mission Vegan: Wildly Delicious Food for Everybody, written by Danny Bowien and his cowriter, J. J. Goode. That’s Goode with an “e” at the end.
Lauren Goode: Oh, I’ve emailed with J. J.
Michael Calore: Have you?
Lauren Goode: Yes. Oh, that’s so funny. Yeah, I think we did a whole “are we related?” thing.
Michael Calore: Oh, nice.
Lauren Goode: Yeah. OK, cool.
Michael Calore: Well, Danny Bowien is the chef who started Mission Chinese, which started here in San Francisco in the Mission District (hence the name) and then moved to New York and got popular. And that book, that Mission Chinese cookbook, is an excellent Chinese cookbook. There’s a lot of meat stuff in it. So I have that cookbook. I’ve only made maybe like 10 things from it. This book, however, is entirely vegan, and it opens with, no joke, like a dozen kimchi recipes.
Lauren Goode: Your favorite.
Michael Calore: Yes. So I’ve made most of them, and they’re all excellent. And if this book has done nothing else for me, it has changed the way that I view kimchi and the way that I make kimchi for the rest of my life. It also has all kinds of great things in it. It has dumpling recipes, it has noodle recipes, obviously a lot of stir-fries and salads. It’s just a wonderful book.
Lauren Goode: Great.
Michael Calore: Yeah.
Lauren Goode: When are you going to bring some of that stuff into the office here?
Michael Calore: I believe the pickles that I make are no longer welcome in the office because they are kind of funky.
Lauren Goode: Who complained about the pickles?
Michael Calore: I’m not going to name names.
Joe Ray: Well, if you lose your job, then you could open a little stand called Mike’s Funky Pickles.
Michael Calore: Mike’s Funky Pickles. That’s my weekend gig, man. Anyway, it’s a great book. I would say that if you’re an adventurous person, then it’s for you, because a lot of the recipes are kind of complex. There’s also a lot of ingredients that are difficult to get if you don’t live near a Chinese market or an Asian food market. The internet is wonderful and can send you things from just about anywhere in the world, but some of these things are pantry items that you would have to buy in significant quantity if you’re going to make a lot of recipes from this book. So if you are already familiar with Asian cooking and you do a lot of Asian cooking at home, and you happen to not see meat as food, then this is a great book. So props to—
Lauren Goode: Do you go, which market do you go to here for that? Nijiya?
Michael Calore: I go to Nijiya, and I go to H Mart.
Lauren Goode: Oh, OK.
Michael Calore: The big mama.
Lauren Goode: Nice. That sounds great. Thank you for that recommendation.
Michael Calore: Of course. And that is our show for this week. Thank you all for joining us. Joe, thanks for coming back.
Joe Ray: Thanks. So Lauren, one of my favorite-ever moments on the pod was when you were closing up and there was a pun that was related to coffee. Do you remember this?
Lauren Goode: What pun? A pun was related to coffee?
Joe Ray: Here, I’ll use video too. “We’ve got to go back to work. We’ve got to go back to the grind.”
Lauren Goode: Oh my gosh. I’ve been falling off on my puns. This is a good reminder of this. Thank you, Joe. Thanks for being such a loyal listener. And Joe—
Michael Calore: That joke was quite pour.
Lauren Goode: Hashtag dad jokes. We really have to have you back on the show more often. I say that to almost everyone who comes on the show, but I really mean it with you, Joe. I really do.
Joe Ray: Thanks Lauren. Thanks Mike. It’s nice to be here.
Lauren Goode: Please come to San Francisco and visit us again soon.
Joe Ray: Sounds great.
Michael Calore: Yes, thanks for being here.
Joe Ray: Thank you.
Michael Calore: And thanks to all of you for listening. If you have feedback, you can find all of us on the various social medias that now exist in the world. Just check the show notes; we’ll put the links there. Our producer is Boone Ashworth, and we will be back with a new show next week. Until then, bye.
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